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2012-07-11 at 14:42

Windy study

By Jeff Labine, tbnewswatch.com
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Opponents of a proposed local wind farm hope a new study focusing on the health impacts of wind turbines will be enough to stop the potential development.

Irene Bond, spokeswoman for Nor'Wester Mountain Escarpment Protection Committee, said she hopes the Health Canada study is enough to stop Horizon Wind Inc. from developing its Big Thunder wind farm.

“It’s about time,” Bond said, of the study. 

“We keep trying to educate the public as to why this location is the wrong location. It’s not just because of health but a multitude of reasons. It’s on watershed land; it’s where the peregrine falcon lives. I’m not sure if it will be the final nail in the coffin and who knows what that will be but we’ll continue our efforts.”

The two-year study will randomly select 2,000 homes across Canada situated near at least eight to 12 wind turbines. The study will look to see if the low frequency noise caused by the turbines has any ill health effects.

Bond said it’s already well documented that wind turbines have health consequences. This study will examine how severe those consequences are.

She said she’s looking forward to the study going forward because it’s being run by a third-party organization that can look into the issue and avoid biases.

An Ontario- government commissioned study in 2010 also looked at the potential health risks of low frequency noise from wind turbines. That study, which looked at more than 100 papers and reports from Ontario, Alberta, and countries around the world, concluded that there are no direct health risks from the noise.
 
In Ontario, wind turbines must be at least 550 metres away from homes. The report says this is far enough away that the human ear shouldn’t hear the noise.

NEPC co-chair Mike Payne said they aren’t against wind turbines but they want the truth to come out.

“I think it’s about time that it’s being done,” Payne said. “Everyone was in favour of the Dorion wind farm and now a gentleman who lives five-kilometres away says it’s like living by an airbase. The Ontario government has admitted that there’s no way to do a proper noise model on 20 turbines or a 40 turbines because there’s too many changes in parameters. They have always done it on one turbine and one turbine is not economically feasible to put up.”

He added he looked forward to the results of the study one way or the other.

Anthony Zwig, Chief Executive Officer for Horizon Wind Inc., said in a media release that the results of the study will show the same results as all the other reports.

“There are no ill health effects caused by wind turbines,” Zwig said.

“At the Big Thunder Wind Park, our turbines are double or quadruple the provincially mandated distance of 550 metres from any residences.  We don’t expect this study to have any effect on our project.  We’re confident that the end result of wind farms like ours will be an improvement in the health of Canadians by reducing greenhouses gases and other pollutants in the atmosphere.”
 



 

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Comments

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mercy mercy me says:
you guys need a crafty lawyer like Seth Weinstein to get to the bottom of this...lol
7/11/2012 3:59:21 PM
Arch Stanton says:
Wind-turbines DO have health effects...

I am SICK of hearing that Big (Settlement) Thunder Wind Farm are up to their old tricks again!
7/11/2012 4:28:28 PM
crazyforweed says:
please list these health effects , if there is any cause everyone who isn't in support is all "OMG health effects" well LIKE what ?? no one has a answer has to what ?? just saying "health effects" .. gimme a break you morons
7/11/2012 5:28:47 PM
treesrgood says:
The Brown County Board of Health (Wisconsin) acknowledges that some individuals maybe unable to live in their homes:

“…formally requests temporary emergency financial relocation assistance from the State of Wisconsin for those Brown County families that are suffering adverse health effects and undue hardships caused by the irresponsible placement of industrial wind turbines around their homes and property. The State of Wisconsin emergency financial assistance is requested until the conditions that have caused these undue hardships are studied and resolved, allowing these families to once again return safely to their homes and property.” Brown County Board of Health Resolution Requesting Emergency State Aid for Families Suffering Around Industrial Wind Turbines, January 18, 2012, Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA

The Ontario Environmental Review Tribunal Decision, July 18, 2011 states:

“This case has successfully shown that the debate should not be simplified to one about whether wind tur
7/12/2012 11:54:02 PM
TRUTHBEKNOWN says:
Funny, all the time I lived in Hamilton, Ontario, there are no wind farms located along the Niagara Escarpment, but there are many located in flat areas nearby....They look so UGLY, when viewed in the once prosperous fields they now occupy......There are hundreds of kilometers of baron land along HWY 527, Armstrong HWY that would be ideal for wind farms, and nobody would be bothered by them....but no, Horizon is still pressing to consume our world renowned scenic Norwester escarpment......
7/11/2012 5:59:47 PM
HC says:
@TRUTHBEKNOWN That would be a question to direct to the City and not Horizon. They leased the land that was offered to them. Why should Horizon break the lease?
7/12/2012 10:48:36 AM
waterunderthebridge says:
It is about time that they studied this. I do not believe that it causes health effects but until they do the proper scientifically based studies there will always be opposition and anecdotal evidence to the contrary. Cell phones cause cancer anecdotally until the Danes finally proved that they do not. So get the study done because otherwise you will always have people who say that until you can prove otherwise why take the chance - even if they still eat bbq burgers, smoke tobacco etc etc.
7/11/2012 6:02:46 PM
treesrgood says:
Wow, Anthony Zwig can predict what Health Canada's results will be. He's amazing. Why bother with a study -- just TRUST the ONE person who's going to make all the MONEY from the destruction of this land. Why haven't we heard from him for over a year? Oh yeah, he wants us to forget his lawsuit to the City when they wanted to protect their citizens by moving a few turbines back.

Health Canada wouldn't be doing a study unless they had good reason. I'll take the opinion of Health Canada over that of Tony Zwig!!! We know what he's about!
7/11/2012 6:33:19 PM
vimeo says:
Well Anthony, enjoy it while you can. You had us buying your horse and pony show a few years ago. But enough time has that people are starting to wake up.

Even if they prove they're not dangerous we've learned that we can't afford to use them. They're more expensive than any other form of energy and they only last 20 years. We already know of your escape clause to run away after they're useless. But Anthony, we haven't forgotten the mess with Pool 6.
7/11/2012 6:43:26 PM
MarathonLogger says:
Might i refer you to the attached revised price schedule, which shows that wind is nearly the lowest cost form now. Please educate yourself before spreading conjecture.

Should the picture not upload, it can be found here -



They also are not designed to useless after 20 years. Why would anyone make an investment of building the infrastructure, not to maintain, and prolong their lifetime beyond the minimum. Perhaps the generator units will need refurbishing, or replacing with newer more efficient technology, but when each tower site will average $6-8 million to develop, build, and bring to production, any one paying the bills will be there for the long haul to recoup the investment.
Tbnewswatch.com

7/11/2012 9:51:29 PM
random says:
I had the opportunity to speak with the project manager out at Dorian last year, and he told me the cost per tower completed is $2.5 million, and that the gov't is paying .65c/KWH. I pay roughly .07/KWH on average for my power. Maybe he was wrong?
I'm not saying your chart is wrong, but I find it odd people are quick to discredit the gov't on issues they are against, and just as quick to believe when it is something they support. The gov't is notorious for skewing the numbers when it is something they want, the Raptor plane is a shining example.
Regardless of what is true, I won't lie. I live near there and don't want them because they are ugly, and could have been placed somewhere else. Would people downtown be happy if they were put all along the lakeshore, where it is always windy? I think not. I also won't lie about the falcons either..if they can thrive in a big city, I doubt an ugly wind turbine will affect them.
7/12/2012 9:03:03 AM
vimeo says:
So, you're comparing a home based solar panel to a huge wind farm. Your comparison although may correct in numbers still shows that in mass quantity wind is more expensive than all other mass produced forms of energy (water, biomass, gas, coal).

As for the lifespan, check out a few pro-wind based websites. It's a well known fact even from wind supporters that they have a short lifespan with no room for retrofitting. They all say around 20-30 years lifespan. Have a read. During the lifespan yes, they will need replacement parts, but after 20-30 years they're done, period. Do you think Zwig will be around to clean them up? Not a chance. Check out his financing scheme. They'll be depreciated to nothing. Therefore, he'll walk away and we'll be left with the mess..again. Talk about being good for the environment.

7/12/2012 9:16:01 AM
alarmforce says:
Wish I could put a couple of hundred wind turbines on my property and it was covered with pumping oil wells and grazing cattle, like in Texas. Get with the times,..... Thunder Bay. We are all losing opportunities to somebody else and you will complain about that!!! Sighhh!!!!
7/11/2012 7:06:40 PM
ComradeLeninHiawathaZwig says:
So if the study says that turbines are fine, will the Neebing Nimbys invent another reason to oppose the project rather than just admit that they're being Nimbys?
7/11/2012 7:20:04 PM
vimeo says:
Comrade, yeah...the fact your electricity will cost more. Still a supporter? We'll see.
7/11/2012 8:29:58 PM
HC says:
And do you think electricity will ever cost less? Why do you think they have been trying to teach us to conserve and reduce the amount we use?
7/12/2012 10:54:25 AM
dynamiter says:
Mr Payne - have you been to the Dorian Wind farm?? Has anybody who supports the NEPC been to the Wind Farm? Has the media been to the wind farm since it has been up and running? Has anybody who is commenting on this subject on this site been to the Dorian Wind farm or any other Wind farm? If not you no nothing about what you talk about - and might I add - you are slightly lazy commentators. It is only 5 miles past the entrance to the Ouimet Canyon Lookout turnoff. There are no gates and you can drive up there with a minivan - right under the towers. Pick an nice windy day to make sure that the turbines are turning. You wont hear them , the only thing that you hear is the exhaust fans for the electronics in the base of the windmill - you also wont see a home within miles either!
7/11/2012 8:48:54 PM
truthfulsmile says:
....."It’s on watershed land; it’s where the peregrine falcon lives." ..... lol is she serious . The peregrine falcon's habitat is widespread except for the polar regions . .... lol it's on watershed land lol lol ... cry me a river .
7/11/2012 9:17:08 PM
random says:
At least i'll speak the truth here, so maybe you and the others can too.
I don't buy into the health risk crap, but I do live out in the area, in a modest home, and don't want to look at them, they are ugly, and will ruin my property value. Add to that, the power won't even be staying here. So who is the fool here? Us for not wanting expensive power that goes south, with us footing the bill, or people like you who buy into it, want our landscape ruined so people in Toronto or whatever can get more power?
All the NIMBY name callers don't live out here, think everyone is rich, and are tickled pink at the thought of "rich spoiled people" getting it stuck to them.
I'll say it again, if they are sooo great, build em along the new water front..they won't affect property value or be an eye sore, right?
All you proponants might as well admit it, you are thrilled at the thought of people in our area getting the shaft. I speak truthfully, now you can to. "lol"
7/12/2012 11:06:24 AM
hadenough says:
Thank you, honesty at last.

Your's in an arguement I can support.
7/12/2012 1:31:08 PM
westfortscum says:
Forget the wind turbines, they are too dangerous for the public. Lets build a coal power plant where there are less rich people. Stop complaining about green energy and keep it green. Some of us actually care about the world we live in. How bad can the noise be? I used to live near train tracks and they make me fall asleep faster.
7/11/2012 9:53:38 PM
HC says:
And to think that neighbourhood has been smelling and inhaling smoke from the paper mill for how many years?
7/12/2012 10:57:07 AM
random says:
The mill was built long before the area by the Nor'Wester was developed, as well back in a time when people had no say and health risks were never a factor. I don't ever recall smelling the mill, or complaining about it, or hearing anyone in this area complain about it.
What does your post have to do with what is being discussed here, besides making you feel all smart for coming up with a "witty" post?
7/12/2012 12:48:19 PM
HC says:
What does that comment have to do with this post? Well, it's saying the obvious that the neighbourhood didn't have a problem with moving into an area that was already polluted, yet now have a problem with a clean & green industry coming in. They had a choice back then just as much as people do now. Just during some decades citizens picked ignorance to obtain their bliss.
7/12/2012 2:52:39 PM
HC says:
Ask your next visitor when the wind is blowing in your direction if the mill releases a sent into the air... bet your bottom dollar they will say "Yes, I do." Those living near the stack have become custom to the fragrance and no longer notice it. Just saying... take a step back and smell the air elsewhere.
7/12/2012 2:59:25 PM
panzerIV says:
Wind Turbines - Some location based damage, issues with shadow flicker and possible health effects due to noise, Renewable.

Oil - Environmentally the 3rd dirtiest form of energy production, causes asthma, massive location damage, releases Co2, Sulpur and more into the atmosphere, Non-renewable.

Coal - Dirtiest form of energy production, Massive location and causes asthma among other health effects, releases CO2, sulphur and more, Non-renewable.

Etc etc....

These people are fighting the turbines but yet they continue to use power and accept the older forms of power generation which are PROVEN to have ill health effects. Are turbines perfect? Nope but take a trip out to the greenwhich wind farm and you will see that the generator at the bottom is louder then the turbine (standing underneath) and they really make no noise.


7/11/2012 10:01:23 PM
vimeo says:
That tells us nothing. Try this experiment...turn on a home fan and sit four feet below it. Then stand a few feet in front of it. Guess which position is louder?
7/12/2012 9:08:07 AM
panzerIV says:
Ok, based on my time (30 minutes- 45 minutes)in the Greenwich wind farm the turbine I was standing underneath you could hear noise. The noise wasn't overly loud but noticeable. There was another turbine about 400 metres away that you could NOT here even standing in front of it. There was tonz that dotted the landscape and the only one that could be heard was the one I was basically standing underneath of.
7/12/2012 12:14:12 PM
dynamiter says:
What is that supposed to prove - you cant hear them over the wind at 1 km or at 100 m. But what you can hear right underneath is the exhaust fans of the electronics in the base of the windmills. Maybe you should go there and take your videos of these noisy machines to prove your point. I've been there and to a whole bunch more and have not heard a whisper over the rustling of the leaves or the noise of the adjacent traffic. In Greenwich all I heard was the solitude and the odd jet flying over.
7/12/2012 2:14:48 PM
made says:
Sounds pretty noisy to me...what was that incessant hum in the background...need a filter, oh but that might cut out the noise...oh yeah...the argument is not audible noise...YOU WOULDN'T PICK IT UP WITH A CAMERA!!! Don't quit your day jobs guys. If I worked for a wind company I wouldn't hire you!
Nice try!
TRY living INSIDE a house that vibrates from turbines nearby...haven't you been listening? it's not AUDible noise that is the problem....never mind...It's like talking to a brick wall!
7/13/2012 3:59:44 PM
Fluffy says:
I thought this windmill thing had been put to bed
7/12/2012 7:53:57 AM
theonlyopinionthatmatters says:
yet another example how adolf harper is in the oil companies back pocket. Studies and funding to examine negative effects of oil sands, slashed and eliminated from the budget. Negative effects of a clean renewable energy source?? No problems with funding that is there? This is a joke.
7/12/2012 9:53:05 AM
ANVIL OF CROM says:
The "green energy" business plan for governments has died worldwide, especially with photovoltaics, and especially with the mortgage crisis in the US and the Eurozone crisis.
Solar and other green energy ideas ie: wind, were supposed to be self sustaining, and by stumulus would create jobs , and industry and of course provide energy.
This idea failed, and imploded, mainly due to world economic not realted AND when china starting making solar panels at prices that killed the solar industries in western countries like Germany, and the US, ( google Solyndra.)
So the concept is dying, and whats the government to do ? As one poster stated put a stop to windpark until studies are done.
So here we go.
if the indusry had been self sustaining and a boon economically like experts predicted there would be no story here. This study would not happen.
7/14/2012 5:55:30 PM
CJ says:
Hahahaha. All you crazies are grasping at straws. Wind turbines pose zero health risks. A low frequency noise is going to hurt us. Hahahaha. Unreal. Nice try.
7/12/2012 10:08:03 AM
Reignmaker says:
"That tells us nothing. Try this experiment...turn on a home fan and sit four feet below it. Then stand a few feet in front of it. Guess which position is louder?"

Fans spin hundreds of times faster than the Windmills will.

I love the fact that these people show up to events with strange pictures and odd behaviour like skipping through the assembly or claiming police officers frighten their children becuase they are there to protect everyone from any wingnuts in the crowd.

I also love that these people were pissed off when we lost that processing plant, that would drop more polution that cause legitimate health issues, and claim windfarms are some sort of WMD.
7/12/2012 10:23:23 AM
vimeo says:
uhuh..and a fan blade is about 30cm. Turbine blade about 30metres. You're missing the point. the sound directed from these huges plades is directed outward, not downward. So, of course they're going to sound quient from directly below.
7/12/2012 12:01:10 PM
TBDR says:
I'm all for wind projects, but I wish the hokey pseudoscience story was given some cred. Some of us don't want the wind turbines on the Norwesters because we'd like to see as much of their natural beauty preserved as possible. There are literally hundreds of clear cut barren lands in the region that would make suitable windfarm locations, and their are numerous wind energy developers who don't try to hold communities hostage with threats of legal action. Niagara Falls said no to turbines on their escarpment, why can't we say no to turbines on ours?
7/12/2012 11:01:07 AM
deerface says:
I think this is a more credible response to opposing the wind farm than they have health effects.
7/12/2012 12:35:03 PM
ComradeLeninHiawathaZwig says:
See!? TBDR's being honest! He's saying he doesn't want turbines on the Nor'Westers because he doesn't find them appealing! He isn't making up BS reasons to block the project, and he's presenting a rational argument! Why can't our Neebing Nimbys just give it up and admit they just don't like wind turbines?
7/12/2012 1:07:46 PM
det john kimble says:
they cannot do that. I liken it to this, a situation where someone is living on a given piece of land. Now behind this persons land is vacant land that provides a very nice view. Now someone comes along and decides to buy/ lease that land , changing the view.
How can the persons whose view is affected stop that happening? ..they cant!!
the argument "i just dont like turbines" is not a valid argument to stop the turbines.
so the health card is played, its the only way now, the peregrine card has vanished.
7/14/2012 12:29:58 AM
TBDR says:
sorry that was supposed to say given less cred.
7/12/2012 1:12:03 PM
daxxis says:
I did a literature study on the negative effects of wind turbines (and farms) barring the aesthetic problems several years ago.
I'm for wind farming, and Thunder Bay has some excellent winds to do it. My (admittedly light) study found that the effects, when compared to the other forms of energy, were minimal. Consider the cumulative health effects of a coal plant operating for 20+ years.

Some effects of wind farming:

Sounds have been linked to psychological problems due to the low 'thrum' the blades passing the base of the turbine. Mitigated by placing blades behind the base.

Ice: Finnish studies have found 10kg ice chunks being thrown up to a kilometre away. A problem for northern climates only.

Birds: farms are known to cause bird deaths. However, many more birds are killed on high-rise windows than wind farms.
Also, the flashing of the blades is suspected of messing with migration patterns.
7/12/2012 12:22:12 PM
tdub says:
Maybe Health Canada can look into the negative health effects of Wind Turbine opposition. If people are going to spin that much ruination they're bound to be some headaches, insomnia, stomach problems, etc. Other studies have found that you’re more susceptible to Wind Turbine Syndrome if you’re a provincial Tory and/or doing the compensation rain dance.
7/12/2012 12:34:37 PM
tdub says:
Maybe Health Canada can look into the negative health effects of Wind Turbine opposition. If people are going to spin that much ruination they're bound to be some headaches, insomnia, stomach problems, etc. Other studies have found that you’re more susceptible to Wind Turbine Syndrome if you’re a provincial Tory and/or doing the compensation rain dance.
7/12/2012 12:46:25 PM
wayne says:
Finally! Health Canada is doing the right thing in commissioning an independent, unbiased expert study on possible negative health effects of living near wind turbine farms.

I once was a thorn in the side of NMEPC, but changed my views and perspective the further I read their information (they have spent thousands of hours on research). That along with the legitimate concerns expressed by FWFN.

I don't live in South Neebing or FWFN, but I empathize with their concerns and frustrations.

The Liberal Green Energy Act has let the likes of Zwig run rampant. The City Council and Admin. of the day put us ALL in a mess with their behind-closed doors meetings and secret deal/agreement with Horizon.

7/12/2012 7:23:14 PM
wayne says:
The study is about infrasonic (low frequency) sound which is not detected by the human ear but travels much greater distances than sounds within our range of audible detection.
7/12/2012 9:59:51 PM
Joey Joe Joe Jr. Shabadoo says:
this study just blows
7/13/2012 9:08:46 AM
det john kimble says:
What WILL people do once the report results are released,
1. windmill ultrasound effects health negatively, then... the anti windmill people will be vindicated.
2. windmills do nothing to effect health. anti wind people will:
a. roll over and let the windfarm build go ahead.( unlikely)
b.flatly refuse to believe ( very likely).
Minds are made up, even though these studies were done in europe already.
Now prov can put a moratorium on costly wind and save face and money.
IMHO, its all smoke and mirrors, example based on news, Businessmen Bond and Beals they were pro wind when they sensed some kind of commercial gain.
Then until horizon decided to place turbines behind loch lomonds property line. Now bond says there dangerous, so are steep icy snow slopes, but people are paying, so bond lets them ski.
News source has photos of Beals on a quad up top of the escarpment with a Zwig minion, showing them around.
MORE TO THIS OPPOSITION THEN MEETS THE EYE PEOPLE.
7/14/2012 12:18:59 AM
wayne says:
And all you people who say there is no health risk living near a wind farm must be experts. The same experts who said asbestos in our homes, schools, work places was okay. Let the study speak for itself.
7/14/2012 2:04:30 AM
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