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2012-08-03 at 10:49

New bike lanes

By Jeff Labine, tbnewswatch.com
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The paint has already dried on the city’s newest bike lanes.

City workers already painted the lines for the bike lanes on Arundel Street early Friday morning with plans to paint Hudson Street, Vickers Street and Huron Avenue. The new additions bring the total amount of bike lanes to about 25 kilometres of road that stretches across the city.
The new bike lanes are part of a massive construction job by the city that includes repairs to roads, street lighting and sidewalk improvements.

The city’s active transportation coordinator Adam Krupper said they have designed the new bike lanes to connect to the existing trails along Boulevard Lake allowing cyclists to transfer from the trails to the road.

“The lanes are literally just being painted today but I hope the reaction is positive,” Krupper said. “We worked really hard to pick roads that are clean and have simple designs. I think people are going to look at these lanes and say ‘they are really simple and that we understand them’.”
He said they gave public consultation to the residents in the area by sending out letters and asked for feedback.

While most bike lanes aren’t connected to each other, Krupper said they are starting to bring them together. He said he’s excited about the work in Current River because once they are completed they will form a complete network.

“People are going to be able to go all across from Cumberland Street and all the way to Balsam Street on bike lanes and without having to worry about being in traffic,” he said.

Project engineer Mike Vogrig said they will also be making some changes to how drivers can make right hand turns. He said the confusion lies on where the drivers should be when they make their turn. In some cases, the vehicle moves into the bike lane to make the turn.

In order to solve this problem, Vogrig said they will be combining the right turn lane and the bike lane to allow vehicles to make a more natural turn.

“We’re hoping this will reduce some of the confusion,” Vogrig said. “We’re going to pilot it on Vickers Street and if it is successful we’ll apply it to other streets. It’s just a minor detail change so it’s nothing too crazy and we always try to improve the lanes.”
 

 

 

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Comments

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daxxis says:
I expect some negative feedback to these lanes, but they are a growing reality in all major cities. It will take a while for both drivers and cyclists to get used to these. Be courteous and exercise some caution folks.
I'm happy to see more human-powered transportation and less cars.
8/3/2012 10:59:04 AM
Steven says:
And there is the problem: thinking that we are a major city! lol

We are TINY. We are NOTHING.
Bike lanes should only be on the largest corridors, if at all.

This and the light rail ideas both tell me that our city council loves thinking of us as some million person city, when in reality we are 1/10th that, not to mention with a weaker tax base per capita.
8/3/2012 2:47:06 PM
mikevirtanen1961 says:
Hearst had bike lanes years before we did, despite having 1/25th our population. Who's nothing, now?
8/3/2012 3:35:12 PM
edhtbon says:
Grand Marais, Minnesota, population 1351, has bike lanes. No large corridors there. People don't just cycle in major cities.
8/3/2012 3:51:52 PM
Steven says:
You are both correct: Some small communities have bike lanes. THey typically plan them out and put them in where there is a need.

Here in Thunder Bay, as far as I have seen, there are so few bikes commuting there is no need, and worst of all, they seem to be placed almost randomly rather than as some part of a plan.

Also, I wonder if they are well-used in Hearst and Grand Marais? Grand Marais is also a special case as they are a very linear designed tourist town with one small central area everyone wants to go to. Thunder Bay is not.
8/4/2012 8:36:56 PM
today says:
I have yet to see a bike lane on a street where theit's really needed. Fort William Rd, Memorial, Balmoral, Golf Links rd, etc, etc. Are we putting in token bike lanes on side streets to appease someone. This is like putting passing lanes on sidestreets and none on the highways. I'm all for bike lanes,... on the right streets!...obviously we have the wrong person doing the job. If the City was serious about these bike lanes, they would have one on Memorial right now,(yes there are ways to do it on that road) where it's seriously needed, most are just a waste of paint, time and money. If you're going to do something, do it right!
8/3/2012 5:00:07 PM
Steven says:
YAY! Lets take 20% of the road up and give it to 0.05% of the people!

These lanes make no sense in a city like this. Other than routes with big-time traffic (southern ontario style), there lanes do nothing other than take up room.
8/3/2012 11:00:05 AM
tsb says:
Take up room? How much width do you need when you're driving?

Honestly, if you need that much width, you shouldn't be driving, because you're drunk. None of these streets are losing lanes of traffic for this. The city is just devoting a portion of the shoulders of those roads to bike lanes.
8/3/2012 6:29:07 PM
chimera says:
funny, i remember victoria ave having two lanes in both directions, not one
8/4/2012 6:08:41 AM
tsb says:
I was referring to these new bike lanes. Victoria's bike lanes have been in place for over a year now.
8/4/2012 10:19:46 PM
Steven says:
Yea.... I remember when you could actually drive on Victoria as an alternative to Arthur during rush hour. Not any more! 1 lane gone to the bikes, of which there are usually a big fat 0 when I have driven that route during those times.

I also think that those people who used to have on-street parking and have lost it to these empty bike lanes also notice.
8/4/2012 8:39:58 PM
jh says:
Excellent news! Ads to the quality of life in our city.
8/3/2012 11:05:12 AM
biking fool says:
with the addition of all these new bke lanes, the city should make it mandatory to have a "training program" showing users what to do & what not to do. If they want to share the roads, they need to be just as liable & just as aware as the vehicles beside them.

Make a plate for bikes which allows them access to the bike lanes. No plate, you get a ticket if caught on the bike paths.

Its a great money grab for the city too & fair.
8/3/2012 11:06:52 AM
moonpie says:
What a ridiculous comment. Training programs to ride a bike in a lane. Maybe a mandatory training program for people walking on the sidewalk to ensure they do it properly as well.
8/3/2012 3:00:50 PM
SomeGuy says:
Then make it mandatory for motorists to take the course also. Cyclists are not the problem when it comes to using bike lanes motorists are.
8/3/2012 3:43:14 PM
RealityCzech says:
These are not bike lanes. Bike lanes are planned, with forethought. These are simply a narrowing of the roadway previously occupied motorized vehicles and allocating the remainding roadway to bicycles. A true bike lane would have meant no narrowing of the roadway automobiles are to travel on and a widening of the entire road surface. Adding instead of subtracting would have truly created bike lanes.

Instead the "bike lanes" are just a source of confusion.
8/3/2012 11:35:12 AM
SomeGuy says:
How are there a confusion? There a lane designated for bikes. There is nothing confusing about them. Your car isn't wide enough to fit in it so it should be in it.
8/3/2012 3:54:17 PM
RealityCzech says:
In Thunder Bay bike lanes are dedicated to bikes... then they become "shared"... then you cross an intersection and suddenly the bike lane is non-existant. And let's not forget cars parked in the bike lanes. It borders on chaos. THAT is how it is confusing. I find it a lot safer using the bike lanes in Toronto than I do in Thunder Bay.
8/5/2012 2:23:00 PM
DGN says:
This is fantastic!
8/3/2012 11:46:09 AM
chbaker says:
I think a good thing to add may be signs on the roads that have no bike lane.. Signs leading to the bike lanes so more people will use them...
8/3/2012 12:09:23 PM
TooShort says:
SWEEEEET !!! more lanes. I cant wait till ever street has them, :D keep them coming Adam Krupper your doing a great job for ppl that want to be able get around in the city by other means !!!
8/3/2012 12:33:49 PM
jimmyboy says:
I still find it difficult to believe that we have an employee with the title and responsibilities of "active transportation coordinator"...I mean seriously that cannot possibly be a full time position...as well I sure would like too know what they are paying this guy???

Stevens post hits the nail smack on the head as well.!
8/3/2012 12:37:37 PM
jb says:
Great backwards thinking. Let's not try to progress as a city, let's encourage mass consumption, bigger vehicles & an unhealthy lifestyle. Let's just do things that accommodate ourselves and not benefit us as whole. What vehicle do you drive that someone riding a bicycle is such a major inconvenience for you? And, for the record, Active Transportation departments are not unique to Thunder Bay.
8/3/2012 1:04:35 PM
Steven says:
JB, the point isn't that we don't want to progress as a city, its that bike lanes are meant for when there are BUNCHES OF BIKES.

And by bunches, I mean hundreds and hundreds during commuting hours on major routes. Instead, we have virtually nobody on them. As such, those very few bicyclists should be using the road like bicyclists everywhere else in the province do on streets that have minor traffic. Hate to break it to you, but here in Thunder Bay, 99% of our streets have AT MOST minor traffic, and bicyclists always have an alternate road they can take that runs parallel. There is no need for these lanes, and they will in fact ruin traffic flow (along with our poorly/non-timed lights) leading to more pollution.

And yes, having a full timer in charge of this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Heck! I think we should have a Director of Sign Colours next to determine what colour our street signs should be. INSANE!
8/3/2012 2:52:32 PM
Janie says:
I live on Court St and take the bus to work frequently in the morning. I see many people using the bike lanes during "commuting hours". I guess there aren't "hundreds" of bikes in the lanes at one time, but I guess that is good because they wouldn't fit.
8/3/2012 4:19:09 PM
ComradeLeninHiawathaZwig says:
If we had hundreds on our bike lanes, I think we'd see accidents increase by an insane amount. Given the lanes mysteriously end or magically transform into turning lanes because they were so poorly thought out and executed, it's a wonder we haven't had more people getting clipped as things are.
8/3/2012 7:32:50 PM
TWM says:
It doesn't matter how the bike lanes are created or designed, whether from planning or inclusion from an already existing roadway, there'll always be negative/positive comments. People are just that way on every issue. I for one would like to see more people using bikes instead of vehicles. Electric scooters, jogging, running, bikes, roller blades, city transit... it's all good.
8/3/2012 1:02:02 PM
keep it real says:
Great news ... giving the bike riders a safe place to ride is awesome ...
Now what can be done about the agressive " I own the road bicycle riding clowns"
This is a problem that is getting worse in the city I had one of theese fools riding right down the middle of the lane on memeorial ave, he stopped at the lights on central and sat there asif he was a car. I rolled down my window and called to him, and I quote " Hey can you to move over so I can get by" and was told F you it's my road too, this loser actually expected traffic to follow behind him as if he was a car. The light turned green and as we started moving I blasted my horn at him, a cop passed going the other was and all just like that he pulled to the right. Cyclists if you want respect from motorists, don't act like fools. I don't mind sharing but remember My truck vs your bike, my truck win's all the time
8/3/2012 1:02:25 PM
passlake says:
Was he riding in the left lane or about to turn left? If not, he was in the right.

"HTA 147 - Slow moving traffic travel on right side: any vehicle moving slower than the normal traffic speed should drive in the right-hand lane, or as close as practicable to the right edge of the road except when preparing to turn left or when passing another vehicle."

So, if he feels unsafe riding on the far right side of the right lane, he is allowed to utilize more of the lane.

You don't like it? Pass in the left lane.
8/3/2012 1:24:47 PM
rootbear says:
No kidding! Mine was a lady turning left from Carrick on to Hewitson which is already a fiasco for vehicle traffic. She was right there in the middle of traffic, left arm out with shopping bags ON HER HANDLEBARS! Now that's balance. Yeesh.
8/3/2012 1:46:05 PM
Janie says:
It shouldn't be an issue if the bike is in the middle of the lane, you are meant to do a full pass when passing a bike. You are in the wrong if you want them to move over so you can split the lane.
8/3/2012 4:26:12 PM
rosmere says:
While the creation of additional bike lanes is a welcome to some one can't help but notice many of the streets whose turning lane arrows have yet to be redone this year. Let's get our exiting street painting done first.
8/3/2012 1:12:36 PM
Dr. Bob says:
EcoSuperior runs a great program called Safe Cycling Thunder Bay. They are always offering cycling cycling courses. Apparently their instructors are all certified and they teach people how to ride safely with traffic, as vehicles. A great way to learn how to ride, I think.

Safecyclingthunderbay.com
8/3/2012 1:23:39 PM
srsly says:
This is all well and good that there is a "network" of these lanes in Current River, but why, WHY are there no bike lanes or recreational trails that connect the North end of the city to the South end? How is this not a priority? The rec trail on the south end heads north to McIntyre River and ends abruptly at Junot. Doesn't make sense, especially in the name of increasing active transportation. I would love if I could make if from my home near Westfort to Boulevard via bike with dealing with busy roads - something that I currently will not do.
8/3/2012 2:00:00 PM
Big Head says:
"The city’s active transportation coordinator Adam Krupper" Hey Dude. You put in bike lanes and yet you can't figure out how to time the traffic lights so they are all green when going from the South end to the North end. The city has a light at every corner and it's always red. If you are going to be coordinator do something about it. Lets pollute the air a little more.
8/3/2012 2:25:13 PM
edhtbon says:
Ummm... I think you better do some research on what an active transportation coordinator is and just exactly what Mr. Krupper is responsible for.
8/3/2012 3:57:45 PM
today says:
Tell us...it seems that you work at City Hall.
8/3/2012 6:37:53 PM
Steven says:
My guess is that if the position no longer existed, 99.99% of people wouldn't notice, and that 0.01% that did notice would be the guy doing the city budget realizing he didn't have to raise taxes quite so much going forward.
8/4/2012 8:38:30 PM
tbaykatrina says:
Bike lanes always cause commentary, simply because so many drivers feel there is too much disparity and deferance given to them over the "rights" of vehicles. Part of that comes from the fact that anyone can get a bike and ride on the road...the same cannot be said for drivers.
Yes there are bad drivers (terrible ones in fact), but like it or not these people were 'trained' to drive a car / motorcycle and had to pass certification to get their licence to do so. Bicyclysts do not, and can head out onto our streets without knowing signs/ turn signals / road safety. They also don't have to carry insurance (in case they case an accident and damage to property) or be registered so that if they cause an offence their plate can be taken down and reported.

We can all share the road, and we can all get along... but lets be fair to all on the road and hold everyone to the same standard. (and drivers... put down the damn cell phones!!!)
8/3/2012 2:53:12 PM
She says:
OK, so If I am turning right and a bike is coming up behind me out of nowhere and the person on the bike crashes into my car while I'm turning , who is at fault? I would obviously wait for the bike to pass me first before turning.But should the cyclist have to stop and let me turn first. Someone clarify this please.
8/3/2012 3:33:36 PM
SomeGuy says:
Pretty sure the cyclists has the right of way since you are performing a turn across another lane of traffic. You shouldn't be driving in a bike lane though.
8/3/2012 3:50:15 PM
Sui Generis says:
To turn right, she would have to CROSS the bike lane. That was her entire point.
8/3/2012 5:23:42 PM
oscarmyerweiner says:
Exactly !! I would turn. The cyclist is behind therefor must obey your turn signal and stop just like the vehicles behind you would.
8/3/2012 4:38:50 PM
moonpie says:
The cyclist wouldn't be behind you. If there is a bike lane, they would be right beside you in their lane. You'd have to cross in front of them to make your turn.
8/4/2012 9:17:24 AM
oscarmyerweiner says:
moonpie you misunderstood, if I am two to three car lengths in front of them, that would make them behind. I hope their brakes work or they better have insurance. So how do they turn left without crossing into the motor vehicle lanes? If we can't cross theirs they shouldn't cross ours. Guess they'll have to use the crosswalks.
8/5/2012 4:44:15 PM
moonpie says:
Excellent question, "She". If you were in regular traffic driving in the lane next to the curb, any other vehicles coming up from behind would have to stop behind you while you make your right hand turn. If a vehicle from behind passed you on the right while you were doing this, they would be disobeying the law (passing on the shoulder). But these bike lanes are now the lanes closest to the curb so you would actually be cutting in front of a cyclist in "their" lane to make your turn. I'd like to know the correct answer to that question as well.
8/4/2012 9:14:38 AM
BetterThunderBay says:
Hi She. This video shows how you should make a right turn when the bike lane is present. To directly answer your question, you would be at fault. I tried to enter the URL of the video so it would attach, but here's the link again to copy/paste into your address bar in case it doesn't work:


The city put out the video to help educate people about bike lanes... and no, I don't work for the city.

It really isn't difficult to check for bikes when you're turning. It's also a good idea to take note if you pass a cyclist when you're getting close to your turn. Never speed up or go to the trouble to "beat" a cyclist to a turn (not that you would), it's discourteous and just an unsafe move. Wait the extra second or two and make a safe maneuver.
8/4/2012 4:33:04 PM
patti says:
I'll comment on John St.(in between St.Hill and the lights at Balmoral) since i live around there .........

The road is wide and bikes have always biked near the curb leaving a 10-15ft buffer between the bike and traffic.
Now what they've done is moved the bike lane next to traffic leaving a 10-15 inch buffer with no mans land from there to the curb.

This is the most idiotic thing i've ever seen.
8/3/2012 4:09:08 PM
oscarmyerweiner says:
ARE YOU SERIOUS ??? Again I've witnessed cyclists just today obeying both pedestrian and road rules. One stopped the other didn't. What is it going to take..... a death? Where is your common sense people!!! Thunder Bay is NOT a big city. Make them a proper bike path or put them on the sidewalks just get them off the roads before someone with a false sense of security get's killed.
8/3/2012 4:20:56 PM
nvjgu says:
Hopeing they use enuf paint to fill the crack's
8/3/2012 4:48:17 PM
Kam River says:
Steven says:YAY! Lets take 20% of the road up and give it to 0.05% of the people!

The city is spending Hundreds of Thousands of dollars on their anti car program. The over paid city staff does not even drive a car and is proud of it. No wonder the city is wasting our money on this anti car program. I had a idiot cyclist cut me off as he went though a stop sign on Donald street in front of city hall and gave me the finger. I am told it is a half million a year hidden in different budgets. for the anti car program. There is snow on the ground 8 months of the year.
8/3/2012 6:56:08 PM
Steven says:
I hope you know that I was pointing out the stupidity of the bike lanes? We agree on every point you just made.

8/4/2012 8:42:41 PM
tbcanada says:
Come January Im sure the transition to "snowmoblie lanes" shouldn't be a problem!?
8/3/2012 7:45:37 PM
arenamama says:
This was NOT city workers as stated in the headline and opening paragraph. NORTH WEST LINES is the contractor who does the NEW bike lanes. The city paint crew repaint the existing lanes and have not completed them yet this year.
8/3/2012 9:06:18 PM
turdferguson3000 says:
The city workers did not paint anything! It was North-West Lines that were hired by the city to paint them. If the city workers and their ten coffee breaks a day ever did anything like this it would be even more chaos
8/3/2012 9:43:13 PM
colleenopaski says:
I for one am not pleased that you spend money and time painting these bike lanes only for them to be wiped away in a month or two, and then have to continually be repainted...this is my tax dollars going down the drain...spend the money on paint that does not wash away and maybe you will be getting somewhere...this city isn't too swift when it comes to thinking ahead anyway...
8/4/2012 7:09:54 AM
maggie says:
I think these bike lanes are the most stupid thing I have ever heard of and also the ugly looking logs they put at Marina park for our sitting pleasure. The splash pad is great for the kids with but with the hot sun shinning down on them while they are playing why not put a cover above. People have complained about teens playing in the splash pad.Think it would be great to have a nice beach built down at the waterfront for the public where it is maintained since most of our beaches are useless thru the summer and not taken care of.
8/4/2012 7:52:18 AM
moonpie says:
Now you're just being stupid. Put a cover over the splash pad so the sun doesn't get to them? The point of an outdoor facility is to enjoy your activity while being out in the summer sun. Maybe you'd like them to cover over the entire marina to keep all the sunlight out? What about the beaches, you want them covered over too? Don't like the sun? Go to an indoor pool.
8/4/2012 3:11:00 PM
silent rebel says:
I ? bike lanes!
8/4/2012 8:29:55 AM
tdub says:
Bike Lanes will the ruination ever end? I hear living next to one can make you sick, deflate home prices, and all the other crank charges.
8/4/2012 8:57:40 AM
TheVoice says:
The major problem with this whole thing is that everyone in TBay has an opinion and half have no clue what they are talking about. The drivers in this city are atrocious, yes some are trained, but most are so old that driving school didn't exist when they got their license. Slow traffic never keeps to the right. Some cyclists do follow the rules of the road, but a lot consider themselves a pedestrian and blow stop signs, red lights, ignore turn signals and my favourite, simply riding on the sidewalk when there is a designated bike lane on the road right beside them. As for tsb's comment, check the facts before you go spracking off. Maybe you didn't notice that Victoria Ave. once had two lanes of traffic traveling in each direction with plenty of room for bike traffic. Now with only one lane for each direction plus a turning lane down the center (which no one knows how to use apparently) to compensate for the bike lane, it is now the most congested and slow moving street in town.
8/4/2012 10:28:55 AM
nwo says:
Ok, I am joining the negative line. I just don't understand how a city council can be so inept at their job - you want your city to be tourist friendly, bike friendly yet you do the dumbest things making your city look stupid. Bike lanes are a great idea but please, do it right. Slapping paint down and calling it a bike lane is nuts. Why, oh why, don't you contact other cities to see how to do it right? No harm in asking for help in doing it right. With the mindset of these people, you will always be a country bumpkin place doing things on the cheap!
8/4/2012 12:08:27 PM
oscarmyerweiner says:
Never mind just the roads they are messing with, what about the parking on the sides of the street. Not everyone has a driveway or a small car. This madness has to stop. Wake up and use your brains, if you can't think for yourself take it to the public before you make such ridiculous changes to the roads. Victoria Ave...what a joke, Syndicate Ave another joke. We are NOT a big city. No one uses them and when they do they don't follow any rules. Cyclists beware you are not safe in your little lanes, watch out for cars turning, check your bike over before you ride, and when you get hit blame the city.
8/4/2012 12:16:36 PM
DazeofThunder says:
I appreciate the city attempting to improve conditions for ALL who move about this city. I could list a thousand things my tax dollars go to that I pay for and don't use, such as having city workers drive around parking lots checking license plates for tourist numbers. I am always very happy when it pays off and it is used for something I do have a vested interest in. What comes around goes around. I do believe we still need to address the movement about the Intercity area as there is still no safe way to move about in that area on bicycle. I stand by the idea a recreation trail needs to go along Water Street/Simpson St all the way down to the marina. It would not only make movement about in this area safer but would bring more families together to the waterfront and create huge visual appeal to the tourists coming through the city. These are the kinds of things that invoke community spirit to me.
8/4/2012 1:00:39 PM
hardrawkin says:
Biking Fool ,
I agree Thunder Bay needs to introduce the driving test.
8/4/2012 7:25:12 PM
She says:
There is a nice headache at the corner of Hudson and Balsam street now.Someone is going to get squished and its not going to be person driving a car.
8/4/2012 8:30:13 PM
wayne says:
*yawn*
8/4/2012 8:41:05 PM
olddog says:
Every opinion poll I have seen the general public are opposed to the bike lanes in this city. The Engineers the designed our roadways must really be disappointed with the implementation of these bike lanes. They studied traffic flow and volumes and built our roads to avoid the traffic problems of larger cities. And then there is Thunder Bay wanting to be like a big city we put bike lanes to impede traffic flow and cause traffic jams.
By reducing the traffic flow from two lanes down to one this is only going to cost the tax payer more money in road repairs by doubling the amount of traffic flow on the surface that means the road will need replacing twice as often (ie) higher taxes. So come election day just remember what that members of our city council were in position to stop these ridiculous bike lanes and did nothing and will be asking us to pay more taxes to support road replacement in Thunder Bay.
8/5/2012 9:07:54 AM
DazeofThunder says:
How big does a city have to be to have bike lanes? Here are five cities half the size of Thunder Bay to compare with.

I can honestly say that since I have lived in Thunder Bay, aside from encountering and accident or roadwork, I have never seen a traffic jam here in the city. I think the issue may be more that everyone is too angry with each other here. The city has a wealth of potential that is not being realized. There are reasons we are being held back and we all need to look within to find the answers....namaste
8/5/2012 10:58:11 AM
Jjd says:
More bike paths please! We're much more comfortable as a family riding on those rather than bike lanes.
8/5/2012 1:09:58 PM
eddylives says:
We can only hope they crack down on the drivers showing no respect and the riders that seem to think they do not need to follow the rules.
8/7/2012 9:40:42 AM
Dan Dan says:
This is absolutely ridiculous. I appreciate the small benefit for cyclists, but the huge inconvenience to thousands of residents who have lost curbside parking is an insult.

This is simply an affront to non-cylcists.
8/7/2012 10:10:33 AM
Tom Sanderson says:
I just spent 2 weeks in Vancouver and the Fraser Valley and they have bike lanes galore. Nobody has a tissy fit because of these lanes. Nobody gets creamed by a car because they have a thing out there that is called "courtesy" and they know how to drive and share the roads. The problem with Thunder Bay is absolute ignorance.
Everyday in Vancouver thousands of tourist rent bikes and ride all over the city. No one gets injured because some self centered mormon thinks they are king of the road.
Oh, they don't ride on the side walks out there because bikes riders and car drivers obey the law.
Time for the people of thunder bay to move into the 20th century and loose their hillbilly/redneck attitude.
8/7/2012 1:11:44 PM
oscarmyerweiner says:
Well you said it thousands of tourists rent bikes and use the bike lanes. How many people do you see riding on ours?
8/8/2012 9:43:47 AM
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