Ward candidates talk debt solutions at public forum

Although everything from a proposed multiplex facility to the wind turbines slated for the Nor’Wester Mountain Range was discussed, it was the city’s debt that had 20 ward candidates waving their arms in the air asking to speak on Tuesday night.

The city, which spent $25.3 million servicing its $182-million debt last year, needs to find the proper balance between spending needs and the taxpayer’s ability to front the costs, though some would-be councillors said Thunder Bay’s debt shouldn’t be regarded as the bogeyman. Others insisted that paying it off in full as quickly as possible is the only way the city will survive.

Twenty of 25 candidates running in the municipality’s seven wards were on hand at the Lakehead Labour Centre for the second of four open forums in advance of the Oct. 25 election.

“The priorities have got to be nothing but 10 years (to fix the problem) and it’s got to be done, paid for,” said Laury Alexander, running as one of four candidates in Red River Ward.”

Former police officer John Radl, looking to unseat Westfort Coun. Joe Virdiramo, said it’s imperative the city get rid of its debt, even if it means selling off its assets to help pay it down.

“We would have to look to tighten our belts, release some of our assets and get it done,” Radl said.

Fellow Westfort candidate John Jeffrey Polhill said the best way to do that is by opening the books and letting everyone examine the ledger, especially on major projects.

“We have to be transparent when we go into Prince Arthur’s Landing-style of developments. We have to know the price and we have to ask the people,” Polhill said, calling for the city to “count the paper clips” a little more closely during council’s next term.

Virdiramo, meanwhile, promised to work toward a feasible repayment plan.

“I think we have to set the timeline and work around that,” he said. “It’s as simple as that. Get it paid off.”

Seeking a seat in Neebing after four years away from city hall, former three-time councillor Bill Scollie cautioned that taxpayers will have to learn to live with fewer frills if they want the debt eliminated.

“If we are going to reduce taxation ... we have to be willing to do without some luxury services,” Scollie said. “We have to eliminate the ones that aren’t being used. If we’re willing to do that we can reduce our taxation and our overspending.”

Lawyer Chris Watkins said the key is to bring more income to the city and only invest municipal dollars in projects that will provide a continued rate of return, financially and from an employment perspective. 

“I see so many less small businesses in this community now,” Watkins said. “I think at the end of the day we have to pay off our debt.”

Red River’s Brian McKinnon, seeking a second term on council, agreed, saying an increase in jobs will create the magnet needed to bring back the Thunder Bay’s youth, broadening the tax base. And, he reminded the 120 or so in attendance that the sky isn’t necessarily falling.

“Thunder Bay still has an A+ rating with Standard and Poors,” he said.

Frank Armiento, challenging incumbent Mark Bentz in Northwood, said he’s been hammering away at the city’s debt problem for years, but claimed council repeatedly ignored his suggestions during budget deputations.

He’s seen about all he’s willing to see and wants the debt to start going the other direction.

“It was $90 million and now it’s at $200 million. We have to cut some spending and reduce the debt. I thought the Marina was a huge expense. Renew Thunder Bay is another $130-million (plan) I don’t think we can afford to spend, so those projects will just have to be put on hold,” Armiento said.

Henry Wojak, running in Neebing, called for a wage and benefit freeze for city staff, something he’s asked for several times in the past.

He got the opposite of his wishes the last time he made the request.

“What did council do? They asked for another $500,000 in the budget.”

Paying for out-of-town consultants had Northwood candidate David Polhill up in arms, along with what he sees as a deliberate singling out of certain departments as ways to show taxpayers they care. But doing so on the backs of long-term care and transit workers isn’t right, he said.

“They’re using them to reduce their debt, while at the same time the sunshine list is growing,” Polhill said.

Neebing candidate Don Sinclair said it’s time to start running the city like a family again.

“If you don’t really need it, you shouldn’t have it,” he said. “If you can’t afford it, then let’s not do it. There’s plenty of time.”

Mike Komar, one of five candidates running in McIntyre Ward, called for a lowering of the tax rate, which he said will stimulate the economy.

“If we want businesses to come here, we need to lower the business tax and the residential taxes and that will create jobs,” Komar said.

Meanwhile David Nicholson, shooting for Robert Tuchenhagen’s soon-to-be-vacated McKellar Ward seat, said it’s time to focus on core initiatives like roads and not the extras some people seem to want, cutting the debt at the same time.

“If it means freezes or cutting back on some of the frills, then so be it,” Nicholson said.

Not everyone feared the state of the city’s finances.

Paul Pugh, running in McKellar Ward, said he doesn’t believe it’s necessarily a bad thing, as long as the pieces are in place to support it.

“Part of that is making sure ... we have a viable economy that is creating jobs,” the labour leader said. “We have to be careful what we wish for, because it may not be what we want.”

Northwood Coun. Mark Bentz said while he’d like to see a smaller debt load carried by the city, he pointed out that about half of it was spent on the water and sewage treatment facilities, projects dictated by the province.

This debt is already being paid off, unlike in other communities that have yet to build their facilities.

“We’re way ahead of the curves of most cities in Ontario,” Bentz said, adding the city needs to debenture less funds and put more money in its reserves.

McIntyre’s Terrence Yahn compared the city’s situation not to a credit card bill, as another candidate said, but to a mortgage repayment.

“Unfortunately the basement leaks and we need to fix the roof ... but I think as long as the debt is reducing, then we’re going in the right direction.”

Jay Stapleton, a first-time candidate in Red River, said government debt is not like private debt and shouldn’t be viewed as such.

“Yes it needs to be paid down, but the debt is not evil,” Stapleton said.

Coun. Andrew Foulds said voters should try to understand the full financial picture before deciding the city is on its way to financial ruin.

“We do have $182 million in debt,” he said. “What was not said was that we paid down $8 million last year. We’ve set the course for repayment of the debt.”

However, fellow Current River hopeful Andy Wolf, running on a promise of no tax increases and debt reduction, said Thunder Bay should only be spending as much as it makes and not a penny more, and called for a month-by-month audit of city departments to find ways to cut waste.

“We should look at other cities, like Mississauga, which is debt-free, and ask them how they do it,” Wolff said.

Wednesday night it’s the at-large candidates’ turn at the podium, while Thursday will see the six mayoral candidates get their chance to answer the public’s questions. Both forums are slated to begin at 7 p.m.